the countdown for the next winter olympic begins it's exactly one year until russia hosts its first ever winter games that promise to become of the most unique and most expensive in history. but not all officials are in a celebratory mood at russia's president lashes out at overspending and sacks a key figure behind the sochi twenty four team. meanwhile the turmoil in tunisia intensifies fresh clashes between anti-government protesters and police are accompanied by political chaos with the ruling islamists defining the prime minister's decision to reshuffle the government. and no compromise and new leaders gear up for a clash over cuts as they arrive in brussels to hammer out a budget deal. thanks

for tuning in we've got news and analysis from all across the globe for you broadcasting live twenty four hours a day from right here in our moscow headquarters you're watching r.t. with me lucy catherine of let's get straight to our top story now we're going to be looking at sochi in fact it's now exactly one year until the opening of the twenty fourteen olympic games here in russia now special giant clocks in the country's largest cities have begun the countdown for the event which is going to be held in the black sea resort city of sochi now the clock that you see right here behind me is actually the one that's in the center of moscow that's ticking in real time so you can see that we have three hundred sixty four days at least there was the clock and a bunch of hours left anyhow this. event this location is also home the home straight for organizers who say the final preparations are on track and finishing touch. as are being made to make the event forgettable now for how things

look on the ground let's talk to andrew farmer who's in sochi we hope somewhere let's see if we have him andrew of course these preparations you know it's exactly a year until the opening of the games how are these preparations going are things actually ready for the opening and on track. definitely won't be fooled i would say that the spirit definitely grips sochi deceiving because just moments ago there was a spectacular fireworks display that lit up the skies above. standing in just before that there was a spectacular show inside to be. included three hundred people including those. from russia past and present. a limp eight story now when these olympics do begin in a year's time they will be very unique for several reasons firstly they will be the first one from the pics to be held within a subtropical environment where i'm standing is just

a stone's throw away from the black sea secondly these games will be very compact. to jump on a train from here and head up into the mountains. within thirty minutes so you can enjoy all the alpine events thirdly most of the venues that have been created have been created from scratch that is something very rare takes on another point that makes these unique is that it is really ramped up the cost of these games to the point that they think the final price tag will be something like fifty billion dollars and that will make them the most expensive games in history to the organizers do say look we already for the rest of the world. in twenty four will be right. all right well andrew farmer keeping us on to posted on all the details anyhow that's not the only thing we're talking about here at forty is are also keeping an eye a close eye on progress in sochi before it becomes host to all those people are

going to be coming there for the games now here is what we have for you russian president vladimir putin said that he has been personally checking in the olympic venues and says that he is generally fairly happy with what he saw he did however fire one top official now after this rather abrupt conversation let's show that video if we have it. it's. already cost overruns yes a serious increase in costs but since they use their influence for the construction on phones. it's financed by the funds. but who's the shareholder across a billion spent banks so it's largely finance at the expense of small about us and these cost overruns are paid for by sperm bank yes it's spending one of the costs of this whole facility because. what's the overall was too much or it's an issue of even assessing the amount of the limit if you're still in what's a rough estimate. is initial pressure one point two billion. in one point two

billion has turned into a billion yes well done good work let's move on. some cutting words from the president there as we reported he ended up sacking a one official so there were some real consequences for what happened and how willing on. the right in tunisia anti-government protests are increasingly turning into violent clashes with police in the capital security forces use tear gas to try to disperse some of those crowds were gathered around the interior ministry meanwhile the political crisis in the country is deepening with the ruling is a must party rejecting the prime minister's call to dissolve the government and to

form an interim cabinet in the wake of the assassination of. a secular opposition leader there that's exactly what sparked the crisis well arty's mayor for notion is in tunis for us mario thanks so much let's see if we have you on the camera there oh it's a grab here take a look. there are no signs at all that tunisian capital is getting any calmer protests continue here today and police is continuing to use tear gas against protesters opposition supporters are on the streets again and. again marching against wednesday's murder of the prominent opposition leader here something they say the government and the ruling islam is a party are behind their tenting and to government slogans and they are not calling for justice or for fair investigation for example but some of them are sending a very clear message that the government the current authorities should step down we haven't received any information about casualties today but we've been hearing

and that at least one policeman died on wednesday during the clashes between opposition supporters and police officers and fears are that it will go even further as to morrow there will be a funeral of the killed opposition leader and police is expecting even more violence even further protest well let's see what's going to happen tomorrow. all right artie's maria for notion out there now we're here to deliver the news to you but we also want to hear your views and find out what you think so actually if you go to our website at r t dot com we have an online poll question for you there so you can let us know what you think the outcome of the latest bout of tunisia protests will be now for you there are you going to find about four options to choose from and we actually broke down some of those results of for you so that you can see how you actually voted now here is that poll right there

majority of those of you who voted think that tunisia will plunge into further rest . it's going to lead to more problems. third of you fear the latest upsurge of public rest will lead to a government government something anyhow those are the results head over to our website and vote. today. these are the images the world seeing from the streets of canada. joint operations room today. going to be a battle between the north and the south at an eating in brussels say it's on

a collision course over spending plans over the next few years britain is the loudest voice among those calling for a budget cuts something that's fiercely opposed by southern countries who are heavily dependent on funds are just us are still reports from brussels. we've seen some of the leaders who had arrived here already making strong statements first of all david cameron continuously saying that if the budget is not brought down to a level that he is happy with there will be no deal we've heard from countries who are saying that they maybe use their veto if they are not happy such as the czech republic to simplify the vickery going on right now it would be between northern and southern countries you could say the wealthier nations versus those that actually depend more on the e.u. funding on the one hand you have countries like the u.k. germany the netherlands denmark these countries are supporting harsher cuts to the e.u. budget david cameron being the most radical and controversial taking this step now

he has been demanding since november last year in two thousand and twelve that was the first today is the second try and since that until now he's been demanding for cuts in brussels bureaucracy for instance he wants to reduce payments of officials here and this has not gone down well with brussels officials they also want to reduce their pensions for instance but on the other side you have those countries who are dependent on these forums and one of the loudest voices on this is a lot of friends now he is saying and pointing a finger at the u.k. say they want cuts but at the same time they are very protective of the so-called rebate this is the money that the u.k. gets back from the e.u. as a return for their payments on farm subsidies which the u.k. does not benefit from and which france benefits a lot from you can see a lot of the national interests coming here to the forefront certainly not happy with what if you read between the lines sub would say you hypocritical. that rebate is worth three point five billion euros and is seen to be wanting to tackle that

point also the u.k. is coming into this summit this is the first time since he had announced that referendum that he said that he would pose the question of whether he should remain in the twenty seven reelected twenty fifth. of course this is a possibility of a creating even more tension in the u.k. with the cost benefit of actually being a member of the e.u. interpreted by the other members not being a team player in this regard and also as this talk is happening talking about budget cuts on the e.u. level we see the budget cuts on a more local ground level we've seen the protests continuing even until today people very angry at the. imposed on them on their livelihoods of their pensions on their potential jobs while the e.u. cannot agree upon a budget of their own. for more on the story i'm joined by robert he is the chair of the bruges group think tank sir thanks so much for taking the time to speak with

us now cameron says he's going to budget veto a budget deal of significant cuts aren't made of course as our reporter you just heard her mention there this is the first time the first summit after he announced the referendum plans the angering many people in the e.u. do you think that he's being too confrontational here. david cameron the british prime minister doesn't really have much of an alternative but to try and block any crease in the e.u. budget because he was thinking that we would just have a situation where it would increase the rate of inflation but of course the british parliament voted no dated we want actual real terms cut or course of a real a real increase not just taking into account inflation so he doesn't really have any negotiating room because if he doesn't he could deliver the yield that suits you a skeptic opinion within his own party within his own british parliament then of course

he will be in trouble again he's made some significant efforts recently to try and resolve tensions over europe by saying that he will have a referendum if he's reelected as going to try minister and of course if you fails to deliver a budget freeze or even a cuts then of course he'll be back in trouble with his you a skeptic so he doesn't have any room for maneuver but then of course equally the president hollande of france doesn't want cuts in e.u. spending because france benefits a great deal from the common agricultural policy and french farmers in particular are very powerful lobby and of course they want more money why you brought up the french position here i mean we almost see everyone pursuing their own interests here honda slamming can't run for his defense of the u.k. is rebate all the french president himself is offending the spheres which france benefits from the most how do you see in this on a budget being a korean agreed upon considering these vast differences well there's going to be

more discussions tonight i think they'll go on very late and the battle lines are clearly being drawn we've even got the president of the european commission. gross so who's been criticizing the british position herman van rompuy the president of the council has been saying we're going to look towards the bigger picture here of course he doesn't want the european union to have a budget cut further course we've seen the limits of integration here we have different national interests clearly colliding and there is the situation that of course national governments are having to impose austerity across europe not just in the eurozone but also in britain because of course there's just not the money available and it's not quite arguable that the european union should have to do the same as well but of course there's various vested interests benefit from e.u. funding and they do not want any kind of adoption fact they want to significant increase but of course that is clearly issues with national parliament so it would be very difficult to find an agreement but what is certainly going to be certain is

that there will be a lot of bad blood between the different european leaders and the different. opinions. into how the budget should proceed the next few years and last year they certainly a lot of blood bad blood i mean you got this point but i sort of want to expand on it very briefly i mean there's almost as dichotomy a almost a hypocritical dichotomy when you see the e.u. sort of quite easily enforcing austerity measures at a national level so why is it so hard for for brussels to agree to spending cuts. well there's the political vested interest it serves many people on the continent of you believe that more powers should be handed towards the european union towards institutions in brussels and of course more money should be given but of course there is also another issue to do with the budget and that's to that's to do with the fact that eighteen years now the union can have order to they haven't been able to sign off operate the accounts because

a lot of the spending is goes on wasteful cortex but of course more alarmingly it's also subject to a great deal of flawed and corruption and that's why literally in eighteen years the accounts haven't been fully signed off but so really does move big bone of from an intention between european leaders but of course they still want more money to want to go towards the european union to keep pushing the project forward but of course at the same time countries having to face severe austerity cuts which are creating a great deal of unemployment particularly in the south we're seeing a real great divide emerging between countries such as britain and germany who are the main paymasters of the european union not wanting to spend so much and then of course countries in southern europe who want more spending led by led by france socialist french president who of course knows politically he has to deliver more money towards french agriculture or course he'll find himself in a great deal of political waters at home while thirdly the battle lines have been

drawn we'll have to wait and see how this all plays out but a tense situation indeed that was robert all the chair of the bruges group think tank thank you so much sir thank you. don't go away we have more news for you coming up after a short break. there are twelve cities in the united states in which half of the people with hiv aids lives within a year of a diagnosis of. over sixty two percent of those species i diagnosed with this is

a problem that frankly is substantially preventable it was like the big elephant in the room and nobody wanted to talk about they were really good public health campaigns people were really focused on this problem you certainly should be able to have a lot less. suffering. she could lumber tour. was easy to believe in the most sophisticated which doesn't give a darn about anything mission to teach creation why it should care about you and. this is why you should want to only. go from drone strikes to torture techniques tough questions are ahead of her brock obama's nominee for cia head as his confirmation hearing in the senate john brennan is widely seen as an architect of the u.s.

drone strategy in an effort to avoid scrutiny around brennan's can of a see the u.s. president has even agreed to hand over classified documents justifying the killing of american terror suspects abroad but after years of keeping it secret now as our team is going into it you can report brennan's confirmation my broaden the horizons for america's drone fleets. in the shadows no more drones are moving into the mainstream was drone makers in the u.s. military pushing to defend the killing machine drones are more properly titled remotely piloted vehicles allow us to do is to project capability without projecting vulnerability in their revolutionizing north america by allowing us to see and kill from half a world away a major drone manufacturer lockheed martin has financed an hour long documentary on drones aired recently on u.s. public television counting the technological capabilities of the killing machine from trailers like this pilots of the predator and its larger cousin the reaper

have killed thousands of individual since two thousand and one using remotely piloted aircraft contrary to popular belief actually provides the greatest degree of ethical oversight for their use and this young man in pakistan would probably disagree several of his family members died at the remote hands of a drone more than a thousand other civilians were reportedly killed by u.s. drone strikes in pakistan and yemen we find ourselves murdering people in many cases children with no evidence whatsoever that they're involved in any criminal or terrorist activity the numbers should not come as a surprise considering the broad definition the obama administration gives us to who should be on their kill list the leaked memo on targeted assassinations on the us justice department suggests the us government can kill people even without evidence that they are actively plotting against america if you extend the logic or studio logic being proud by the white house now where you come. live you might

say that we're in danger of going over we're getting very close to zero thought crimes that if somebody a u.s. citizen or otherwise is believed to be thinking something that could lead to actions against the united states the. and this illogical logic would present the idea that it would be ok for the president to order that that person be killed despite the un raising concerns about the legality of the use of drones the us is said to expand its remote control warfare setting up new drone bases across the world the latest announcement a new facility in asia where obama has redefined war during intervention in libya he made the case that the war powers act in the quiet because there was no risk to american soldiers and so under that rationale he can expand the global war while in his state of the union address claiming that we don't need perpetual war for peace

but it is perpetual war when you can drop bombs on any country and then claim that it's not working john brennan often referred to as the architect of the administration's drone war how it's the new opportunities for the us to wage wars without risking american lives there's another reason a targeted strikes can be a wise choice to strategic consequences that inevitably come with the use of force . as we have seen deploying large armies abroad. our best offense all in all the u.s. now has around ten thousand drones in its fleet not all of them carry weapons of course a lot of them are for surveillance both domestic and international there's a great push both from the administration and the drone makers to present them as america's next best thing john brennan if confirmed will soon be at the helm of the cia and no one doubts that under him the program will expand even further the goal is pretty much clear to be able to control the world with a remote control in washington i'm going to check on. more analysis on bravo

obama's pick for the cia head as well as the implications that the choice holds for other countries they might have to step in where we had to right now we're joined by ahmed rashid the president of the political lobbying group happy nationalists forum sir thanks so much for taking the time with us to speak with us now of course john brennan is most famous or infamous lee known as the architect of the u.s. drone program there are some concerns about his interrogation. techniques when it comes to u.s. pakistan relations considering the the tedious i guess background of the drone program has had there especially how it plays out among the population what do you think his candidacy or him being at the helm of the cia would mean for your country pakistan the over the last three years we've had a coup going on between you and the pakistani intelligence agency the i.s.i.

right now you can see there's a chance truce but if john brennan is confirmed i think we're looking at a nother stage of instability in this entire region. baucus not. confirming the obama administration but confirming john brennan and it's you director is. basically tape clean us all back to the same destructive policies that actually led to the american and to the near american defeat in the months down the same papa sees the end taking i say shit off allies we all know that you have to stay just work very closely with several countries in this region in order to secure afghanistan this included of course five stunt it included several countries in central asia it included russia and others but it with each of these countries the united states and the policies the kind of policies that the cia particular purse you would really in antagonized all of these key u.s. allies and made the u.s.

mission in afghanistan very very difficult so by confirming and by picking john brennan the united states administration is basically is telling everybody you know what i will continue to do would pursue policies unilaterally and these policies would be quite similar to the ones that actually antagonize many of the americas though as in this region so we are looking basically ahead and on their face of instability of increasing instability in this whole region of course i have i can also mention several key points also about the drone program john brett and the and the cia are touting this as one of their successes and how it's important for the future but the fact is the drones have a very checkered record with regards to the successes and let's take a tighter for example of hideout was not all rated because off the drone. it was

a little created destroyed because of the close intel and just cooperation between several countries in the region key of course where the united states and and practiced done the drones where basically used by cia here in the border region between fuck some of the guns done namely that region was that was sort of a training ground for the drone technology and yet you're every find any evidence we've done. a lot of research we try to save maybe we're wrong let's look at it from other different angles but i feel to find any evidence that would show me how one or several drone attacks in the buxton of guns to what a region where were instrumental in crippling little tired of that is not true it was crippled because key members of al qaeda were arrested on their grounds by people and not by machines flying without pilots and of course i every time i hear that these are good things that are being sold to the american public opinion about the effectiveness of the drone i'm really surprised me these are no more than

sitting in front if you're. in front of them on a tour and plane are next ones maybe or. three playing call of duty you're just as ignorant about about the targets you're if you're firing out and you're not sure who they are and you're taking your chances that's exactly what the cia drone program has to be part of that was done border well in these duty call of duty with a lot of real life unfortunately that have consequences to people on the ground there sorry to cut you off we are out of time thank you so much i was off my court i see the president of pakistan's political lobbying group pac nationalist forum weighing in on a whole wide variety of topics there are add some other international news and a break for you right now let's take a look at those iran supreme leader the leader ayatollah khamenei has rejected a u.s. offer of direct talks over its nuclear program thing the two countries cannot negotiate

and tehran has a gun pointed at its head now it comes just a day after washington tightened economic sanctions on iran aimed at restricting cash from oil production he was vice president joe biden made the offer of a one to one discussions last saturday. the leader of the hamas group of the group hamas says that he's in talks with palestinian president mahmoud abbas about forging a coalition government khaled mashal mentioned that both parties are getting ready ahead of parliamentary and presidential elections there are now hamas have pushed the fatah movement headman headed by a boss out of the gaza strip back in two thousand and seven conflict between the two sides. meanwhile while the fires in australia are making their way across the south of tasmania while emergency services are bracing for a worsening weather conditions authorities have called on some locals to move from inaccessible areas up to live

a danger has passed the latest wave of fires comes after a bushfire destroyed nearly two hundred properties last month. business after a short break stay with us. speak your language. programs in documentaries in arabic in school here on. reporting from the world's hot spots seventy r.p. interviews intriguing stories for you to. see in trying. to find out more visit our big. dog called. wealthy british style.

market. find out what's really happening to the global economy with mike's conjure for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines two kinds a report on our. government no longer represents the people the people are going to take such as. we. speak at least in the traditional sense but. the

way our economic system currently is not democratic. live.

it's thirty two minutes past the hour welcome to the business program on r t with me. well russia's resort city of sochi is getting ready to host the twenty fourteen olympic games of still one year to go to the event but it's already being dubbed the most expensive olympic games in history and of course the big question is is it really worth it so i've got kiddie pool being here with me to discuss this in detail so katie is it really worth it for that is the question indeed but i would have to say yes because it's not about the money it's about the legacy of russia it's about the history of the country it's about the future as well for the people in sochi russia as

a whole and in terms of course the reason why it's cost so much is because eighty five percent of the infrastructure had to be done from scratch so that's where the cost of gods we've got raul words tunnels going through the mountains we've got power plants as well all those calls them talking about part of russia on the days three point five billion people will be watching and when you're a foreigner you think of russia you think of the red square you think of the kremlin you think of the beautiful historic picture rest of peace is about but not necessarily so so really opening up on a on a grand scale theater tatar right but i mean i understand the need to showcase of russia to showcase sochi but fifty billion dollars that's a lot of money and not all the winter olympic games one profitable actually you know we saw the vancouver of making some money and before that there are precedents as well the summer games we saw salt lake city making more than one hundred million dollars i mean that's peanuts compared to fifty billion you're still going to make any money in sochi any well it's not

a foul up though it really isn't about making money but i would say that the local businesses the cafes the restaurants the small businesses they will make money you know it's all about the multiplier effect people are going to bring money into the system and spend it likely. and that's what it's all about particularly serious to wally this infrastructure these roads they're not just going to be for the games of course for the sports but they will be felt decades potentially centuries to come so it's really an investment here so you're basically talk of attracting tourists is what kind of tourists are we talking about here is it like domestic tourists from within russia because i really doubt that europeans considering the abundance of both winter and summer resorts over in europe they're going to be coming to sochi well that's the long term goal but i think at the moment it's all about tapping into the domestic market here in russia and i did today we spoke to michael seaman off he's a c.e.o. overnight of us that oyo and he's actually in the middle of building the biggest hotel in europe and he said that's exactly what he intends today on believe

that the airlines are going to decrease the fee the fares and the russian internal tourism is going to take off here it's going crees for many reasons i doubt that we're going to have a lot of international. destinations being attracted here but domestic travel is definitely going to pick up because so many russians are just not going anywhere and there is a category of russians were traveling internationally but it's still not more than ten percent so if there is a serious number of russians food just preferred to stay in their own country and if you imagine that the airline fares go two times three times lower it's very convenient to come here two three hour flight and you don't have to cross the border drones but you're not spending time on the on the. border controls the offering all the know is going to be attracted to the shore. they have it the domestic market is very much on the radar the moment for investors in sochi for one

of the reasons i mean one of the ways of making money is by overcharging the potential spectators right are we running the risk of seeing that in sochi well apparently not according to the committee of sochi the organizers the ticket some of the prices of recently just come out and forty two percent of them will be below one hundred dollars and actually the lowest price so maybe students who want to get involved in the action that we seventeen dollars up for grabs so that's reasonable and actually looking at the cost significantly lower than that of the final of the ice hockey match which is probably the most sought after ticket in town will be thirty percent lower than the q one and also if you fancy going through the displays of the ceremony that will cost you two hundred dollars well that's actually not so bad but i mean so ok we're just trying to get a hold of the money situation you know trying to control the money but can we control the weather vancouver definitely have problems with that so do we have that

planned out now i would say no because who can ever plan the weather you know i mean that is just something. but having said that there are all concerns that is going to be maybe too much snow or not enough because at the moment which is rather mild but there is apparently according to plan a big snow machine plan go out there and like more money well yeah potentially you're not a sports fan are you well i do like like ice skating always proud of them. that's for sure i look pretty in their dresses for sure. ok and moving on in a widely anticipated move the european central bank on thursday left the interest rate unchanged at a record low over zero point seven five percent of course on the one hand the recent data shows europe is on its way to economic recovery which is easing the need for more rate cuts vied on the other hand the rising euro actually hurts european. exports that makes the region's economy all less competitive so far the

e.c.b. has been resisting the pressure to bring down the value of the euro earlier on thursday i asked steam jacobson chief economist at saxo bank in copenhagen what he thinks of the e.c.b. policies here's what he said mentioned that the details should be left to the euro is up three and a half percent that will cost europe in growth terms net point three percent of growth in an economy which is already almost tail spinning the actual underlying economy as represented by german g.d.p. was more negative than expected the spanish one was minus point seven so i think we are back with the same picture again that you know the market is having a party but the real economy is still going from bad to worse. and it's time now to take a look at the markets over in the states where the trade is pretty active the sour equities are shedding value following a couple of pretty upbeat days and that's despite the fact that there are some positives that's coming out like the weekly jobless claims that came in better than expected actually a europe shares ended the session mixed we saw quite

a correction on the footsie down more than one percent as you can see right there but the dax closed above the line here in moscow the equities that managed to withstand the pressure from abroad both indices the close of the session in the red and on the currency markets the euro fell ever so slightly against the dollar the russian ruble closed mixed to both major currencies as you can see right there and not full the latest from us and business coming up next it's our interview where we talk to the former cia officer and whistleblower in torture john kiriakou and that's just ahead for you after a short break. limitation liquidation free storage free. free.

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john kiriakou with me today former cia official who blew the whistle on the agency's torture practices after nine eleven john kiriakou served as the chief of counterterrorist operations in pakistan mistaken are always reportedly praised at the agency for his will in the capture of abu zubaydah who back in two thousand and two was thought to be third in command and now years later john kerry is heading to prison he was just sentenced to. two and a half years in jail mr getting out with thank you so much for coming thanks for having me i really appreciate it i know that time is of much value to you and your family now before you. find yourself behind bars. you were convicted of revealing the identity of an agent or freelance reporter who by the way never even published it you said you regret it shape sharing the name of the

agent of the officer and your policy for it but you also said it was not why the government went after you why do you think the government went after you i have i have never believed that my case was about a leak i have always believed that my case is about torture when i went on a.b.c. news in december two thousand and seven and i said that not only was the cia torturing prisoners but that the torture policy was an official u.s. government policy that was approved at the very top by the president of the united states himself. the cia filed what's called a crimes report against me the next day with the justice department the justice department never stopped investigating me from december of two thousand and seven until i was finally arrested in january of two thousand and twelve so to say that this that this case is a result of a name that was found in a in

a an attorney's brief at guantanamo is just simply not true that they were looking for something because they were going for something to pin on me what i find most gracious about your case is ahead you've been actually accused of torture of human rights violations you wouldn't have gone to jail know. they they would dismiss any accusation because the u.s. government has classified everything related to its torture practices but yet you go to prison because he talked about it why do you think this administration president obama who signed an executive order to stop torture at the very beginning of his first term why do you think he's protecting folks from the previous administration most people don't realize this but president obama has surrounded himself with the same intelligence advisors who advised president bush through most

of the first term the cia had the same deputy director that bush had the same director of operations that bush had john brennan who is president obama's new designee to be the cia director and until what a week ago or so was the deputy national security adviser was under president bush the director of the national counterterrorism center and up to his eyeballs in torture policy so even though we changed presidents there was really no change of intelligence advisors at least not on counterterrorism john brennan you mentioned john brennan and i want to ask you about him the future head of the c.i. what kind of a cia chief is he going to be in your opinion i think he's going to be somebody who will be extremely aggressive. and who will probably be comfortable. walking on the edge of the law you worked with him i did i worked with john brennan for many years and i know him pretty well mr could happen you yourself supported

torture before you were against it what happened what changed your position well let me correct you on that and this is something that that i think most americans missed in my original n.b.c. interview i was trying to draw a distinction between whether torture was right and wrong or whether it worked i believed it was wrong and i called it torture and i said that torture was official policy that's on the one side on the other side the cia had told us internally at the time that it was working what year was that that was in two thousand to two thousand and three they were telling us that it was working we now know from the inspector general's report that was released in the spring of two thousand and nine that that was a lie that the cia was lying even to those of us inside the cia and i think it was just to protect themselves and to protect the policy but it never worked. did you have a personal experience related to torture were you personally involved in torture no

thank god i was never a person involved in torture when i returned from pakistan in the early summer of two thousand and two where i had been chief of counterterrorism operations i was asked by a senior officer in the cia's counterterrorist center if i wanted to be trained in in the use of these torture techniques and i said no i had a moral problem with it and i didn't want to be associated with it there were fourteen of us at the time who were. made the offer two of us said no and then one of us not me the other guy changed his mind so i was the only one who was made the offer who declined. because at that time you already believe that it wouldn't work i just thought i didn't know if it would work i mean they were telling us it would but i just believed it was wrong you know it at the cia part of the cia's culture is to couch all issues in shades of grey you

have to be very comfortable working in morally nebulous situations or legally nebulous situations but there are some things that really are black and white and i believe that that was a black and white issue there's something that i think you will find interesting and something that i'd like you to comment on polls by the american red cross show that the majority of americans find torture acceptable sixty percent of young people agree whereas four years ago torture was largely condemned in the u.s. . how did this become the new normal what happened in those four years i think that many people who told pollsters in the early or middle part of the last decade were reacting to president bush little by little president obama adopted most of president bush's counterterrorism policies and just because he happens to be nobel

peace prize winner barack obama most americans who haven't paid much attention have just bought in i think it's a question of education here domestically people need to be informed that hollywood have a role to play i think hollywood had a role to play i think that zero dark thirty for example did a grave disservice to counterterrorism zero dark thirty perpetuates this grand lie that torture led to the the. the killing of osama bin laden it's just simply not true myths often become history one comedian here said movies it was about zero dark thirty about the way it's serious movies is where americans learned their history it's true what myths what other myths do you see being perpetuated now related to the war on terror i think one of the great myths and i chuckle to myself because it always seems so ridiculous to me was president

bush's statement that they hate us because we love freedom. i know al-qaeda i've captured al qaeda fighters i've had conversations sitting across the table like i am with you with all kind of leaders and i can tell you from firsthand personal experience that the reason people take up arms against us is because of a lack of education yet that i understand that the united states can't educate the whole wall no we can't but we can we can help other countries develop an infrastructure so that they can educate themselves coming more and more about your encounters with those what are their impressions that you have the first kind of fighter i ever caught was in one thousand year old boy from tunisia and the only reason he went to afghanistan was because he had nothing else to do he had no skills and no way of making a living and he wanted to get married so the local in mom said if you want to make some money you know what you should do you should go to afghanistan and make jihad

against the americans if you do that i know somebody who will pay your family five hundred dollars and you can use that for a dowry and you can you can get a wife so this kid had nothing against the united states he had never even really thought about the united states so from your experience you saw no ideology i saw very little you see ideology and some of the older fighters some of the leaders the camp commanders for example sure there's ideology there but in my short time in pakistan i captured fifty two al-qaeda fighters i can count on one hand the number of people who were real ideologues who really were there for jihad who were really there to kill americans three out of fifty two the perception of one condiment who has gone a long way since two thousand and eight when he was a burning and a highly controversial issue most recently you know the state department has shut down the office that was working to shut down the guantanamo prison is that this

administration's way of saying. forget about. antonymous let's move on i think it is i think it is again where's the outrage the american people really don't care if guantanamo is open or closed this administration it appears decided not to bother about interrogations kuantan prisoners and all that and just to bomb whoever seems suspicious was drawls what do you think about this administration's no prisoners policy we find ourselves murdering people in many cases children with no evidence whatsoever that they're involved in any criminal or terrorist activity and what this does is it encourages other people to take up arms against us john brennan the architect of the drone program basically and it was last year i think when he claimed that u.s. drone strikes caused no civilian deaths in pakistan over the prior year which was

an outright lie by so many accounts do you think we're going to see more transparency was regards to drones with john brennan at the helm of the cia you know. no i don't with john brennan. secrecy is the key word. unless of course you know if he chooses to leak for the benefit of the administration what did you expect when you decided to go public to come clean on on on torture at the cia i mean your wife worked at the cia and she was fired because of him and your father of five and you're going to prison what future did you envision for yourself five years ago. i didn't envision prison in my future five years ago i expected there to be a national debate on whether or not we wanted to use torture as an official u.s.

policy now i'm very happy proud actually that i played a role in that debate and now the law of the land is that torture is illegal i'm very proud of that i frankly didn't expect that the government would would go after me so relentlessly i stood in the snow for two hours to vote for president obama i really believed that this was a positive change i believed that he deserved that nobel peace prize or only because i expected things to change so dramatically at the beginning of his first term so no i never believed i would be going to prison under a president obama never and that's been i think my biggest disappointment but you haven't seen a dramatic change i haven't seen any change no torture he stopped torture sure but in terms of counterterrorism policy i think the obama administration is largely an

extension of the bush administration and stick it out with thank you for the interview i wish all the best thanks very much for having me. well. science technology innovation all the least developed minutes from around russia we've got the future covered. play. play.

play. play. play. play. play. play. i. p.v.t. you feed. the fish feed the.

fish feed the to eat. six. you know how sometimes you see a story and it seems so for life you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realize that everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm tom harpur welcome to the big picture. much much. much. much. much. much. worse.

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